The Estee Lauder Conference Call
Posted 07 August 2004 - 04:02 PM
Although frustrating for us because we just feel like we are always harping on the same topics over and over again- the damaged solids and warehouse sales- and nothing is being done and they are telling us they are not aware.
This is why we felt the call more on the negative side, mainly because nothing was resolved and we did feel hostility from someone on the call.
We also felt the call was not helpful because we didn't even ask some questions members submitted. One thing I wanted to ask was if they would consider bringing back some of the other EL fragrances as well as many other issues and ideas. I know Ann had these and more on her list but we all stopped asking when we felt the tone change.
I guess the positive things were telling EL about the lack of protection for the solids in the new boxes. Another thing was the addition to crystals to some of the solids. We did also make them aware of the discolorations of the plastic resin. This in the future is positive because perhaps it won't happen again and mabe we will see small changes.
Posted 07 August 2004 - 06:39 PM
I give you as well as Woody, Ann and Roselyn my total respect for what you all did with this conference call earlier this week.
Posted 07 August 2004 - 06:41 PM
As for all the items on Ebay and the warehouse sales, I didnÝt feel that much would be done to address the problem. We were told that Estee has people ýwatchingţ Ebay and following up on fraud and suchÍ.but then we were basically told that there was nothing that could be done about it if items were obtained legitimately. I have to take personal note here in that I donÝt understand why it is ýOKţ for people to buy at the warehouse sales in quantity, dump the stuff on Ebay at bargain basement prices ˝ which is in some cases critically impacting our collection values - but yet some people arenÝt allowed to buy retail from Estee directly because their name is on ýthe listţ. Unfortunately, my name is still on the one in Vegas Kudos to Ann (and Lisa too) for representing us all in a very professional and straightforward manner. She asked direct and challenging questions, like ýif I know that the solids will be on Ebay at lower prices, why buy them nowţ? There really wasnÝt a response of note that I can recall ˝ but the fact that the sales and other outlets are allowed to exist tells me that: they just donÝt get it.
As for Lieber solids and questions on why there wasnÝt more deviation from previous models, the answer I believe was the designer was in charge of what was made, etc. As for Mr. Strongwater, I think he has totally outdone himself with this yearÝs offering. They are wonderful. Totally new, unique and priced very reasonably in comparison to his other wares. As for the Liebers and the general line for 2004, I am not impressed and am choosing not purchase any. That is just my personal opinion so please no one take offense. I offered the fact that the website was a wonderful source of information on what we collectors would love to have designed and offered. I believe there have been numerous chat topics on this subject. If I were running a business, I would want to offer what the consumer wanted. I didnÝt get the feeling that too much effort would be put into obtaining that information from us, so again, I think: they just donÝt get it.
As for the website and support of it, I have to concur with Lisa and Ann in that there was a fairly blunt response in that it would not happen due to resource issues. I repeat, if I were running a business, I would leverage this wonderful opportunity to gather customer input, feedback and support it 1000%. How much effort could it take? An occasional post or information directly from Estee on what is going on and response to our legitimate questions and concerns would be worth thousands of dollars in sales. The internet is the most expedient way to dispense information and can do so in mass scale ˝ and here is a site designed to support us crazy collectors and provides a direct link between the company and us. In my opinion, Estee should subsidize the site just for the value it brings. And again, my only response is: they just donÝt get it.
In all fairness, we were told that many things would be looked into, like the packaging for the solids and some specific Ebay transactions that Ann brought to light. I hope that Estee realizes the passionate responses to the meeting stem from concerns over our collections and the desire to keep this area of collecting growing and thriving. If no attention is paid to the warehouse sales and other outlets for parts and such, as well as really showing support of this website and collectors input, then I am not sure how it can continue to be without severely impacting the collector community.
Respectfully submitted ˝
Posted 08 August 2004 - 03:28 PM
Does Estee Lauder realize that they are not producing top secret nuclear weapons? These are collectible perfumes we are talking about. Why the secrecy? Bizarre that a company producing collectibles wouldn't want people to know a complete list of what they have made in the past.
These folks might go out of business if all of us collectors gave up collecting. Osama Bin Laden must be behind this conspiracy, ya think?
Linda in Hotlanta
Posted 08 August 2004 - 03:33 PM
I agree with you totally. When I owned my own business, I was a success because my customers came first, always.
Linda in Hotlanta
Posted 08 August 2004 - 06:24 PM
No-one foresaw the power of the internet and the introduction of Ebay!! I guess if it weren't for Ebay, this wouldn't be happening to it's large extent!
Now the men and women in suits at EL who are working a gold mine can't handle us as collectors. Correct me if I'm wrong, but we have to remember that this isn't and wasn't the primary issue of them in the first place - that's why (in Woody's words) "they just don't get it."
For us to bring that to the forefront constantly bugs them. It was only ever dollars and cents to them, and still is. The fact that they will pay big bucks to get things they should have kept but never did highlights the fact that it was never supposed to get this big and out of hand. They have to pick and choose what they have to try to salvage from the world market (in terms of relics) by whatever means they can - so yes - they are savage and will suck up to you until they have what they want and make you feel important then when they've finished the deal, you're just discarded like a broken solid.
Let's just not worry about rubbish on Ebay and focus on what we are doing. Why waste time, energy and effort worrying about what other people are doing when you can clean up your own back yard. Let's take their example and shut them out of what we are doing and focus on what makes a collectable.
We are concentrating on having a valuable and worthwhile collection. Period. We don't need to dictate to them as to what we want, and they shouldn't feel the need to dictate back to us.
We want to know 'how many' - well, how many is the number that they feel they will sell without making a loss. So don't buy in too many multiples . . . . if this site has only 300 members and then double the number for the number of collectors in the world - then hopefully they'll limit the numbers to 500 or less maximum made of each piece.
It'll all work itself out, I'm sure. No need for anymore angst about it. We ain't gonna change the world . . . . we can only change our own inner world. We've been burnt and learnt (hopefully). Let's leave it at that. EL know how we feel, but it's up to them whether they react to that or not. We can't force change.
Posted 08 August 2004 - 09:57 PM
WOW! This is enough to make my head spin
Do you think the reason for all the secrecy about the older solids is that EL just doesn't have that data and they're covering it up. Just maybe they didn't keep the records.
Good report and comments. I enjoyed reading this topic.
Posted 09 August 2004 - 01:01 AM
It would be a shame to have such a histprical base lost - but if the grand dame was anything like me - she kept notes and one of everything as a matter of pride and record. It just means soomewhere in her estate rests the answer
May we be so lucky!
Posted 09 August 2004 - 09:21 AM
Posted 09 August 2004 - 12:01 PM
I find the opportunity to share information and/or opinions with other collectors invaluable. I hope that EL will come around and see just how important this website is to collectors and the issues and concerns we have as collectors (warehouse sales, damaged solids sold on ebay, etc.).
An avid solid perfume collector
Posted 10 August 2004 - 01:47 PM
I have read and re-read these pages. Now I think (?) I'm ready to comment. All of you have been so well-spoken....I don't pretend to be able to express myself as well.
First of all, thank you Lisa, Ann and Woody for representing us so beautifully. I truly do not think, I would have had the skills to participate in the call and keep my "cool".
Woody hit it at the heart of the issue......they just don't get it
And furthermore......it was obvious that they really didn't care
It is appalling that a company of their magnitude has such poor policiesand practices. They need a "new regime". Are these people so obtuse as to NOT SEE the obvious benefits of this website? There is a phenominal amount of knowlege here:
Lisa and Jack, freely coordinating the site and ALL that entails.
Ann and Ken, through their contributions of photography and teaching and constant attention to help us all..
Brigitte ....making available her fantastic website and database for all to enjoy and
ALL OF OUR MEMBERS, who spend thousands and thousands of dollars on this joyful addiction,who look forward to visiting the site, learning and ultimately spending THOUSANDS MORE.....
How dare the EL Conglomerate show such impertinence and disregard!!
Shame on them. Oh.... but I forgot..........THEY JUST DON'T GET IT!!
Posted 10 August 2004 - 04:59 PM
Dear Lisa & Jack, Ann, Ken and Woddy
Thank you so much for all of your efforts, all you energy you invested - I feel so sorry for you all, because I know that particularly Ann and Ken worked very hard for many years on talking with Est╚e Lauder - in vain - it is very disappointing - very sad!!!
It is for me a genuine need to express my deep thanks for the great bord, all the wonderful pictures, the knowledge, the information, all your work and help.
Lisa, Jack, Ann, Ken and Woddy again 1'000 thanks - take care!
Greetings from Switzerland,
Posted 16 August 2004 - 04:05 PM
Wow loads of catching up here!
Thanks to everyone for fighting our corner
It has often come up in the posts that EL are just interested in the $$$$$!
However, I say this cannot be true.
It it were, they would look after there existing customers who often spend much more than they can afford (I even got into debt!)
They would welcome free advertising and promote thier products with all their might!
They would offer a customer service hotline or email address for comments and suggestions.
Instead of finding resources to prevent people from purchasing solids (CC) etc they would put resources into PR and Sales!
Still what do I know I'm just a mere member of the public who has a hobby and a few coins (no notes) in her purse..........
Boy should us lot get together and start our own company EL would go bust overnight
The end of my say.
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